What’s a doctor to do when they become disenchanted with the healthcare system? Dr. Timothy Wong decided the answer was to start his own micro-practice.
In his office in the East Liberty neighborhood of Pittsburgh, Dr. Wong sees ~20 patients per day and only charges $35 for a visit.
This allow people without health insurance to get the care they desperately need. Dr. Wong believes that healthcare needs to be simple, needs to be about the patient & the doctor, and needs to be accessible.
His business model allows that to happen.
In this conversation, Dr. Wong and Aaron discuss how he got the idea for iHealth Clinic, how care gets delivered at his practice, and the way this model can spread & inspire change.
Pittsburgh’s best conference to Expand your Mind & Fill your Heart happens once a year.
Dr. Timothy Wong’s Challenge; Let other healthcare providers know about direct-access primary care.
Connect with Dr. Timothy Wong
iHealht Clinic website
If you liked this interview, check out episode 399 with Hayden Cardiff where we discuss spinning a software company out of another firm, raising a $9 million Series A, and hiring in a high-growth startup.
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Watson: Dr. Wong, thank you for coming on the podcast.
Wong: Thank you for having me.
Watson: So I read first about what you're doing here at the clinic through a Bloomberg article. And then before I could even write the email, trying to get you to come on the show, a friend of mine sent me the article saying, dude, this gotta be perfect for the podcast.
And I think the reason that he sent that to me is because this is. It's simultaneously innovative, but then deeply simple, what you're trying to do here at the clinic and taking kind of a new business model, a new approach to healthcare. So to start things off, can you just explain how this clinic works and the business model underneath it?
Wong: Sure. So I'm pretty sure I didn't, or I wasn't the first one to invent this model. It actually is a lot of people, the model resonates with them because it was how we did medicine many decades ago. So I call this model direct access primary care. It's a little similar to direct primary care where physicians don't take any insurance, but in that model they take a membership.
So even if you don't go to the doctor, you're paying that membership. But, on the flip side, your visits are generally free and you get some perks like generic medications may also be free or discounted. So I didn't really like the membership model. So I kind of took part of direct primary care, but also paired it with something called the micropractice, where I was, I am the only kind of employee. And that way I can actually decrease my costs so that I can have a price point where I don't need memberships, but most visits are actually $35 and we don't bill insurance. So it's for everyone.
So if I have patients who have Medicare, I have some patients who have Medicaid. Most of my patients have no insurance and some patients, the other majority would have commercial insurance, but high copays and deductibles.
Watson: Yeah. So this is about anyone can walk on the street. Like, you know, the clinic's got open here after we complete the interview. Anyone can walk in off the street for $35, get to speak with a doctor, get taken care of, gets to see some sort of assessment of their health.
Wong: Yes. Yep. Exactly. So for example, we do primary care, urgent care. So I do simple suturing. We do, you know, this week just alone, we had kind of two corneal abrasions, but we do a lot of primary care too. So we generally treat a lot of anxiety, depression, just because it's so prevalent, some diabetes. This week I actually saw a patient with, uncontrolled diabetes who wasn't getting treated for a year.
And it was interesting because he didn't actually have insurance. So he was actually foregoing healthcare. And he kind of made enough money where he couldn't get medical assistance or medical assistance for workers with disabilities, but he was making this mental decision to forego healthcare because of the price of commercial insurance or the full price of seeing a doctor, which can be $150, $200.
So I saw him in, I think he was a week or two away from landing in the ICU because of his sugars and I charged him $35.
Watson: Wow. So. The reason that this model is possible, use the term micro-practice direct access healthcare. The layman's version of someone not in healthcare understanding of this is we've got a little space here that you're renting in the East end, got three rooms, one room for providing care to patients.
And there's no other administrators. There's no people who have to interface with the insurance companies, which has its own kind of inherent cost in order to be able to translate that. So that's really what's making this business model possible that $35 can sustain you and this space and the gear that we have here.
And then otherwise, if someone needs to see someone in a specialty environment, you can kind of make that referral.
Wong: Yes, exactly. So you alluded to the space, it's about 700 square feet. I only need one exam room because I don't have staff to prep a patient in another room. So, I also have a self check-in, so I don't need a front desk staff.
So it's actually still pretty efficient because if I see a patient I'm done, they walk out of the room and someone else walks in. If there's someone there, I can prep a chart in maybe 30 seconds and get that ready. I have no billing, pretty much people pay at the end of the visit. So I don't need to hire billing departments.
I don't need to get collections. My collection rate's probably 99%. So it's pretty good. Actually, you also alluded to working with insurances and there's some studies that show actually just working with insurance can cost a hundred thousand dollars per year hiring staff that interface with that insurance.
So helping to fill out forms, but also calling the insurance and doing other things. So we not only decrease the, or take away the second highest cost of a medical office, which is additional staff, but we also reduce the cost of working with insurance companies. So it's quite a bit of savings for the patient.
Watson: So where did you go to learn about this model? Learn about this idea? Because almost always when I interface or when I talk with someone who is playing by a different playbook or kind of chasing a different model than the status quo or the standard way of doing things. They're getting their information from some other source. So where did you go to kind of start to conceive that this was possible?
Wong: That is a very difficult question. And I would say it's difficult because it was not just one source.
Wong: So my wife is from the Philippines and she's a doctor and her parents are doctors and she would tell me kind of. You know, it was cash based there, but it wasn't very expensive.
And because of the cost of living was low, it was definitely easy to have a means to live, even charging a low price point. I would have my college advisor would tell me his doctor, his father was a doctor in New York city and he wouldn't actually charge very much or sometimes not charge patients at all.
But what patients would do would be to tell them, 'Hey, come to the restaurant.' You know, because the patient was a waiter or was an actor and say, 'Hey, come to my show.' You know? And that was a form of payment. So my college advisor had actually had a very colorful and rich childhood, even though he wasn't very monetarily rich.
Wong: But he, he had all these cultured experiences. I also was interested in kind of the micro-practice model cause they kind of liked working independently. I kind of liked working, you know, if something needed to be done, just do it, don't go through a committee.
Watson: Did you spend some time in a large healthcare system to see that alternative?
Wong: Yes. So I, I worked, not exactly, well in, in residency, I was part of one of the large healthcare systems here, but it was kind of a training environment. So we didn't see too much of, you know, the kind of the bureaucracy. But also, working with insurance companies that much, we were just trying to learn how to provide care.
So we're kind of, it's kind of like an extended apprenticeship. But when I did about four and a half years in Indiana, Pennsylvania, which is kind of a small health system in itself, it was with an independent hospital, Indiana regional medical center. And there, I kind of, I also did quality.
So I was director of quality on the outpatient side. So I would work with insurance companies, the major insurance companies on quality metrics, making sure our quality metrics were high. Making sure, you know, diabetics had good sugar control. They were on the appropriate medications, for example. Starting new endeavors to try to get our colon cancer screening rates up.
But also with that, I saw kind of the insanity of the system, because you know, I would see insurance companies making these cost cutting decisions that made no sense, would actually hurt patient care, and I would even have employees from the insurance company who would come to our meeting and be like, 'yeah, I don't agree with this.' But, you know, and I'm like, so, you know, the insanity is so prevalent that you yourself as a professional, don't agree with the insanity that you see.
Wong: And so I was thinking one day with all kinds of these, these pieces together, you know, I was part of the problem because I was in the system because I was taking insurance. They were part of my master when I was seeing patients. And so I was like, you know what? I got to cut that tie off.
And so what would be my alternatives? So there was direct primary care. And so that's usually a pretty big movement now, but I really didn't like the membership model. I didn't feel that we should charge a premium for access. Access to primary care is actually already pretty hard. That's why there's urgent care and retail clinics, and we don't have enough access.
So limiting that access even further and charging extra for that didn't feel right to me. I also didn't like the idea of me getting paid when I wasn't doing a service. So just being able to come see me, I shouldn't get paid for that ability.
The other really big thing I had against direct primary care, and this is, you know, my own personal view is that they limit their population to maybe 400 and 800. When, average PCP might see close to 2000 patients, maybe 1800. So by decreasing your patient panel to maybe a third or a quarter, or even, you know, even half, you're really making access harder for everyone else.
And you're making your colleagues in primary care work harder to fit acute and chronic care. So while it's good for your patients and you can argue that you provide great care. There's also a spectrum that we have to realize between high volume, poor care and low volume high care. We have to find a happy medium between those two. And it can't be just low volume high care because while you're providing high care for some, you're also neglecting many others that you never even see.
Watson: So what is abundantly apparent in, you know, this is our first time meeting in person, is the degree to which you are driven by mission driven by, you know, the Hippocratic oath that, that a doctor takes upon the completion of their education to find the way to help people.
And what's fascinating to me is you're simultaneously using your skills to help someone, whether it's with, you know, diabetes or depression or some of these other elements to actually get treatment, but also thinking at a systems level about how to do that for the greatest good and the, in the highest utilitarian sets.
I think that's really, it's really fascinating that that seems what's driving you.
Wong: Yeah, I'm actually doing kind of some leadership roles, but also looking at our primary care group in my previous position. Really thought pushed to me, looking at systems. I actually went to college as a freshmen in engineering, but I soon dropped out and went into English and pre-med, but that also showed me, you know, You know, in medicine, it's great because you can help people.
But what I realized was if you could make the system better, you can help a population. So helping one person is awesome. You can see direct effects, but helping a system, you can help thousands of people at once.
Watson: Yeah. So the other thing that's always fascinating and, and across the spectrum of interviews we do on this show, there's so many through lines of, well, now, when you introduce digital, when you introduce these kinds of modern tools. It allows for in all these different, whether it's, you know, technology or politics, or we can go run across the spectrum, all these different ground up solutions, as opposed to something being top-down in a capacity.
And, you know, having the iPad where someone can sign in on the way in and manage probably a lot of, you know, other elements of your business processes digitally helps something like this exist in some capacity. So the other element of that is you, the individual, being able to make this work. So frankly, the basic math here, you need to get enough patients in the door to pay the bills.
But the other element that I was curious about as we were coming in here is, you know, with Hannah and I starting our own business, one of the big keys was that I had paid off my student loans. And she didn't have any. So we, we came in with no debt, which allows us to, you know, run that very tight margin then revenues at the early stages of a business.
Medicine is the profession notorious for accumulating debt as a part of your schooling. So how does that factor into your being able to get this off the ground?
Wong: So I, I of pretty much did the same thing you did. I didn't have a lot of student debts. Luckily, thanks to help from my parents. My wife, as I said is a physician.
So we had one stable income as I kind of did this. But what you also did was you didn't take a small business loan. And if you did have a student debt or you were the only person having an income in your family you would probably have to do a small business loan and pay yourself. But because I was in my position with little debt, you know, I had mortgages and car payments, but those were helped by my wife who had a steady income. I was also debt free. So we have no debt in, in the company so far. I, for a few months, I didn't pay myself anything. I put, you know, maybe $60,000 to start up, get everything ready. But we didn't take a small business loan because I could take that personal financial hit.
But if I couldn't, that's pretty much what a small business loan is for. So I would be forced to do that. And then you would have to pay that off and you couldn't, you know, it would slow down your business growth because you would have to pay that debt off. It would also be riskier because you are now in debt, but it's definitely still doable.
It's just one of those kind of barriers to entry that that exists for any small business, let alone kind of this model.
Watson: So what does sustainability look like for you in this model? Like how many patients need to see, what, what does the volume need to look like to make that work?
Wong: Sure. So. It's not an easy question because you have to figure out what's the norm for a primary care doctor.
So a primary care doctor in general, according to Medscape's annual surveys. I think, I haven't looked at the numbers for awhile, but most primary care doctors work about 50 hours. So it's more than 40. They spend 10 about 10 to 12 hours on paperwork. So that includes reviewing a ton of paperwork from insurance companies.
So say if you negate that since I don't work with insurance companies, and I would say that's the worst part of being a primary care doctor, at least when I was doing the traditional model, you remove about eight hours. So if you reinvest that time into just patient care and being in the clinic available, you can still work maybe 50 hours.
If you see about 20 patients a day, your salary would probably be 60% of what a traditional PCP would make at about $215/ $220,000. Okay. In PA we're in the mid Atlantic region, we actually get paid, I think the second lowest in the country. So I would say traditional PCPs, maybe get 180, 190. And then if you see 20 patients a day, that's probably about a salary of 120 if you can keep your costs low.
So you do have a salary reduction at the cost of being fully independent, being your own boss, getting joy back into your job because you are, you know, taking care of patients. I see patients all the time who are like, 'Oh, I admire what you're doing.' And I tell them, well, I went to medical school to take care of people, not insurance companies.
I didn't go to medical school to fill out forms. And so you get that joy back and that does come with a financial cost. But if you are efficient enough and you can see 30 patients a day, you have thrown some telemedicine, you know, you could make a very similar income than a traditional PCP. And you could say, well, 30 is quite a bit, but if you're efficient enough and with self check-ins, it's actually not terrible.
Watson: Yeah. And the other thing that's so fascinating to me about doing something like this is you're, you're still in the early stages, right? And there's still a degree to which number one, you're learning how to do this. You're learning how to actually build this system itself and make it more efficient and get people in the door more efficiently, all these other things.
But as you prove a model like this, part of bottom up changes is, well, some people will see what you're doing and maybe go do it for themselves on the other side of town or in a different town somewhere. And that creates the opportunity for whether it is a software developer or some other service provider, another sector to figure out how to build something for you that isn't necessarily right for the large health care system isn't necessarily right for the other parts of the industry. But would it make sense to help you do this more effectively?
Wong: Sure. So that is something I've actually been thinking about quite a bit. Um, I I'm actually lucky enough to be working currently with two people who are in software. And we're actually trying to create this kind of platform that decreases that barrier to entry.
Wong: So eventually what if we created almost a Shopify platform where we could help other providers really just plug in and decrease those barriers of entry, like, hello, how do I figure out how to do self check-in while I've already been doing it? This is how you can do it for a very affordable price.
Well, how do I have a queuing system? Well, actually a few weeks ago I started a queuing system using Google sheets. And it's HIPAA compliant here. You could do that. Oh, how about adding telemedicine in? Well, we got this crate telemedicine platform that we've already developed and it has all these features that no other platform does, here use this.
And so by doing that, not only can we, you know, at least get a return on investments, but we can also make it easier for other people to do. And part of this model as you alluded to is it's a proof of concept.
Wong: So that's why I didn't want to take grants or outside funding or a lot of small business loans because I wanted to show it can be done.
It can be done in Iowa. It can be done in Hawaii. It can be done in California. You know, your price point in certain details might be different. One example is maybe if you're a female provider, I would recommend at least you have an additional staff just for safety reasons.
Wong: And you might want to, even as a male provider have a, an extra staff and you might have to charge a bit more because of that, but making this model really kind of an option for providers and an option for patients is one of our stretch goals, and decreasing those barriers to do it is one of our stretch goals as well.
So creating a software platform, but eventually even having a fund where we can provide the small business loan to make it easier for you to do. Or even having a malpractice contract with a national carrier. So it's easier for you to do.
Watson: And could be shared with all the others.
Wong: Exactly. So you kind of leverage kind of the lessons I learned, but also kind of group purchasing.
Watson: So the software thing is like, I'm tingling a little bit at hearing this idea because the whole. Magic of AWS within Amazon was that Amazon was the first client of AWS. They built their own clouds infrastructure, and then they figured out how to turn that into a product that they could offer other people, but they got to incubate it internally.
Same thing happened with another company. Idelic, that does safety software for truck drivers, started within Pitt Ohio for themselves, and then spun out to be a product for other people. So, being able to build that solution for your own internal pain points where you're right up next to it every single day, and then spinning that off as something to help other people is a great idea.
Wong: Yeah. And I think it can, you know, like I said, it, the hardest thing to do this is just getting into it. Yeah. Cause you have to figure out and do things you probably aren't normally comfortable with, but making that easier. And making, you know, this model more accessible to providers is definitely what we want to do.
And even at our first meeting with these other kind of developers, we all agreed unanimously and easily. You know, we were saying, you know, if it comes to the pushing the model or making, you know, a return on our hard work financially, we're going to push the model. And everyone agreed because we believe in the model, and we really think this needs to be an alternative in American healthcare.
And you can ask any of our patients, a lot of our patients, you know, what they think, and you'll, you'll hear a lot of good. Feedback.
Watson: Yeah. So, I'd be remiss here if I didn't ask some, probably super low level, but basic questions that you get all the time. So in terms of writing prescriptions, you're able to do that. Is there any sort of like difference or drastic change in what people be used to?
Wong: So that, that is a question where I do ask patients, do you have insurance?
And then sometimes they get a story of how they lost their insurance. I'm like, That's okay. You know, there's almost a stigma not to have health insurance. And for me, it's, you know, it's more of a financial decision. It's not a stigma point, but, the reason I ask is because if they don't have health insurance, I give them good RX coupons.
Or for chronic issues, we can think of patient assistance with the drug manufacturer and try to get them, you know, a year supply of a pretty nice brand drug that can decrease the risk of dying potentially, with patient assistance. And if you have prescription coverage, what I do is just send the prescription to any pharmacy.
If you don't have prescription coverage, I send the prescription to any pharmacy, but I print out a good RX or I text you a good RX coupon, so that at least you have some price transparency and you should have almost guaranteed price.
Watson: Gotcha. And then what about like different testing? Say someone needs blood testing, I don't even know all the tests. You would probably tell them better than me.
Wong: So part of this too, is kind of creating those, that knowledge base to do this model actually also involves kind of contracts with, so I have a contract with quest so that I can get client-based prices. So for example, a patient with insurance paid $230, like a few years ago for her lab work when she had insurance because of deductibles and copays.
Wong: When she didn't have insurance and she saw me a few months ago, she paid $30 and she had no insurance at all.
Watson: Wow. That basically breaks my brain. That that happens.
Wong: Yeah, it's counterintuitive and unfortunate. So, you know, getting these contracts makes the APC direct access, primary care easier, but also, you know, finding local resources too.
For example, there's a, a nearby radiology place that's independent. And I send them a lot of business because they have price transparency. They do a good job, but they also, you know, do cash pricing. That's cheaper than anyone else. So. You know, yeah. I'm going to send them my patients right on price transparency.
Watson: There's an economics podcasts that I've listened to where they've had a couple of really good discussions about basically amongst the issues with the healthcare system is this notion of like, okay, I'm getting shoulder surgery, I'm buying shoulder surgery. I have no idea what that actually costs.
It's obfuscated behind the wall of insurance and all this other administration. So. The notion that having that transparency right at front, where someone has to bring their prices as a part of it, there are other kind of second order considerations of what, you know, just going bargain, hunting for healthcare could potentially imply.
But the fact that there isn't any sort of transparency in pricing across most of the system is a real issue for people people's accessibility across the board, whether or not they're making a lot, a little or somewhere in between.
Wong: Sure. Yeah. Price transparency makes the market more efficient because if you don't have price, transparency, how are you going to be make educated, inefficient decisions?
I think that's part of the reason why people forego healthcare and basic healthcare that can make their daily life better if they don't have insurance because of that price opacity. But also that very high costs that they don't even see until it happens. So they, they they're just averse to even getting that hit of, 'Oh, that bill.'
But it's also with price transparency issues you also have, I think it's called information asymmetry in economics, where, you know, insurance companies have more information than the consumer. And that is an advantage, a vast advantage for the insurance company. So say you want a shoulder surgery and you get the bill, you had it done and you're recovering, which is great.
But then you get a bill. How are you going to argue that bill? Or how are you going to know that bill is okay.
Watson: No frame of reference.
Wong: Yeah. You have no frame of reference. They're going to use medical jargon and insurance jargon. Like I signed up for open enrollment in July with my previous employer. There was this complicated chart. As a medical provider I couldn't even understand a hundred percent of it. And I was like, I don't know what this means. And it's ridiculous because I think insurance companies actually play upon that because it's very hard for consumers to make good decisions. And so, you know, it's, it's like leading blind sheep.
Unfortunately, consumers get manipulated in healthcare all the time. It's not just price transparency, but it's also information asymmetry.
Watson: Totally. Last question, kind of in this vein here, before we aim towards wrapping up. When it is a more severe case. So our understanding is their primary care helps me be diagnosed or direct the issue.
And in a system it's like, okay, you need to go to this specialist, that specialist, what have you. But when you do come across those cases that supersede your capacity to treat, what does the next steps look like for you there?
Wong: So it's pretty much the same as any other primary care I would refer. I usually say, you know, if you're a good primary care doc, you shouldn't be referring too much.
So out of, you know, we just hit, I think over 1200 patients, unique patients, yesterday and out of all the referrals, I probably made 30, 40. And most of them were a sleep medicine because of sleep apnea, possible sleep apnea, which I can literally do nothing besides refer them, or fractures. Or I think there was a few cases of sending to endocrinology for hyperthyroid, which I'm not great at, but everything else, mostly, you know, I do myself.
So that's still, you know, probably 99 or 95%, you know, not having to refer. Now, there are patients I've sent to the ER, just because, you know, it was unsafe for me to just treat by myself and risk it. So one patients ate an entire bottle of anti-histamine, and I was like, ah, I think you have anticholinergic poisoning.
And you know, so I called the ER and sent them, got a friend to drive him to avoid, you know, an $800 ambulance bill and made sure he was safe. And I gave report to the ER and he got to the ER.
Watson: Great. Well, Dr. Wong, I am so inspired by what you're doing here. Like, like I said, at the very beginning of this, I read the thing a friend of immediately said that this is somewhat a story that we had to share and tell, and I'm really excited to see this movement continue to grow in addition to your own business.
Before we hit our last two questions that I talked about before we turned the mics on anything else you were hoping to share today that I just didn't give you a chance to?
Wong: No, not really.
I think, I think this model really can work because even if you look at our Google reviews, you know, at six, six months we've hits, we're lucky enough to get five stars across the board.
And I think we hit 43 reviews. And so it has social value in this model. So I really want one of our goals is really to show that this can be done, you know, in other parts of the country and really. I even before I started, I told my wife, you know, if I even have 1% chance of changing the healthcare system, it has to be worth it.
And I'm lucky enough to think that this model can work with, you know, different kind of flavors. But I think it can work still. And it does have such social value because, you know, 8.5% of Americans in 2018, it's estimated had no healthcare insurance. And I didn't even realize how bad that was until I started doing this.
It's almost like when you're a traditional provider, it's almost like a silent population that you never see, but need help. And it's almost tragic to me to have patients who are hardworking. We have patients who, you know, worked three jobs and are maybe even single parents and working really hard and great, great additions to society, but society is failing them in that, giving them basic healthcare options.
Their only option right now is either paying full price, which we talked about might not make financial sense, or they have, you know, they're averse to just getting surprised with all the price opacity. Or a free clinic, which are difficult to do, you know, in all of Pittsburgh, I think there might be two.
And you know, there's the enrollment thing and then they have certain hours and then only certain hours are walk-in. So it can be pretty difficult. But also what I realized too, is that 8.5% includes a lot of patients who are actually very vulnerable. Like new immigrants, travelers or family members who just traveled to help take care of, you know, newborns.
So you have grandma or your mother coming in who have no access to healthcare pretty much. But also children, which I never realized. There's actually a decent proportion of patients who are minors without insurance, because, for whatever reason, they can't get chip or another insurance. And having a resource and being able to provide a service to them is vastly much more rewarding than only seeing patients with insurance.
And, you know, doing medicine in pretty much the same way, but the value that I feel I'm doing every day is vast superior to a traditional model. And I think a lot of providers have to experience that.
Watson: Yeah. I want to make sure that all of our listeners can experience it in some capacity. What coordinates can we provide for people that want to learn more both here and in the digital world?
Wong: Sure. So we have a Facebook page, I think it's 'iHealth Clinic,' but our main website is www.ihealth.clinic no.com or anything. And I'm actually trying to promote the direct access primary care model www.Directaccessprimarycare.com. And those are kind of the main places we have Instagram, but I am not a great Instagrammer.
Watson: No worries. We're going to link that all in the show notes for this episode, you can find it in the podcast app where people are probably listening right now, and also goingdeepwithaaron.com/podcast.
Before I let you go and start treating some patients here, I want to give you the mic. One final time, Dr. Wong to issue an actionable personal challenge for the audience.
Wong: Well, I think especially if you're outside of Pittsburgh, if you think this model as a patient could work for, you know, your friend, yourself, your family, tell this to your medical provider. Because I think we need to get the word out that this is a model.
And I think in the next few months, we're going to show that this is completely financially sustainable. We're growing pretty quickly. I've already been able to pay myself a salary after a few months. Traditionally it takes two years for practiced and mature. And we've gotten really far in just six months.
But I think I need help getting this model out there. And if you're a patient who thinks that your community can benefit, spread the word. Tell your friends, share it on Facebook, share it on social media. And hopefully a medical provider who has the ability to get into this model can see it and be like, wow, people are talking about this.
You know, this could work for me. You know, I might be in a position where this could work and we can spread this model, you know, across the country and provide care in a better way, and for a lot of people who don't have insurance or have high copays, or just have problems with access who, who can't even see a PCP for four weeks.
So if you are a patient spread the word so that, you know, we can spread this model and get more providers knowledgeable that this is a model that could work for them.
Watson: Right on. Dr. Wong. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast.
Wong: Oh, thank you for having me.
Watson: We just went deep with Dr. Timothy Wong. Hope Everyone out there has a fantastic day.